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New None/Think/Mpw menu item name

Menus.NewNoneThinkMpwMenuItemName History

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October 10, 2007, at 12:20 AM by 85.17.186.161 -
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mondelac

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  • Fr√©d√©ric (remember that MPW stands for "Memorize Parameters of Window" :-)
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  • Fr√©d√©ric (remember that MPW stands for "Memorize Parameters of Window" :-)
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  • Fr√©d√©ric
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  • Fr√©d√©ric
April 19, 2006, at 11:51 PM by Nick -
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January 23, 2006, at 04:45 PM by 212.180.15.164 -
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In a recent discussion in the User's forum of the AlphaTclMailingLists? a proposal was made and subsequently adopted to remove all "Think" support from AlphaTcl. Files that were previously saved as "Think" will in the future be silently transferred to the "MPW" state.

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In a recent discussion in the User's forum of the AlphaTclMailingLists a proposal was made and subsequently adopted to remove all "Think" support from AlphaTcl. Files that were previously saved as "Think" will in the future be silently transferred to the "MPW" state.

January 23, 2006, at 04:45 PM by 212.180.15.164 -
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(:title New None/Think/Mpw menu item name:)

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  • Aaron Montgomery *
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  • Aaron Montgomery

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  • Bernard

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  • Bernard *
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  • Aaron Montgomery
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(Bernard) If I may add a few comments, I think that a name like starting with "Save" is misleading because it suggests, when seen in a menu, that it is a command to save something. Keep in mind that we'd like something to use both in the File Format popup and in the SaveAs dialog.

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(bd) If I may add a few comments, I think that a name like starting with "Save" is misleading because it suggests, when seen in a menu, that it is a command to save something. Keep in mind that we'd like something to use both in the File Format popup and in the SaveAs dialog.

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(Aaron) I think I suggested "Save as Plain Text" at some point; but Bernard is right, it sounds like a command.

(Aaron) "Resource Fork" may at some point become misleading if we ever start placing this information somewhere else. We could certainly change it later, but I suspect the user doesn't care *where* it is saved, only that it was saved (or remembered) so I would suggest we choose a name based on what we want done, not how we did it.

(Aaron) Someone also pointed out that if we make MPW the default, then Alpha would go around creating resource forks in files that we open which did not start with resource forks. I agree that this is bad, but I think that if a file is opened which does not have a resource fork, then we should be able to have it set to NONE. The default state would only appear during a "Save As..." or when saving a new file. I'm updating from CVS right now so I can't check if AlphaX behaves correctly currently. If it doesn't I'll see if I can fix it.

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(agm) I think I suggested "Save as Plain Text" at some point; but Bernard is right, it sounds like a command.

(agm) "Resource Fork" may at some point become misleading if we ever start placing this information somewhere else. We could certainly change it later, but I suspect the user doesn't care *where* it is saved, only that it was saved (or remembered) so I would suggest we choose a name based on what we want done, not how we did it.

(agm) Someone also pointed out that if we make MPW the default, then Alpha would go around creating resource forks in files that we open which did not start with resource forks. I agree that this is bad, but I think that if a file is opened which does not have a resource fork, then we should be able to have it set to NONE. The default state would only appear during a "Save As..." or when saving a new file. I'm updating from CVS right now so I can't check if AlphaX behaves correctly currently. If it doesn't I'll see if I can fix it.

January 23, 2006, at 04:41 PM by 212.180.15.164 -
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(:title New None/Think/Mpw menu item name:)

Voting has ended:

This wiki page was set up to determine users' preferences for issue described below. The results have been tabulated (see below) and forwarded to the AlphaCabal. Thanks for participating!


The "File Format" pop-up menu in the status bar for Alpha8/X v 8.0b14 currently allows users to determine the saved state of the active window, and includes options for

  • None
  • Think
  • MPW

See the Alpha Manual for information about what these mean -- it basically suggests that there are three different ways to save information in the file's resource fork for font, tab, cursor, location, and color information. When the value is anything but None, this information will be saved and presented the next time that the file is opened in Alpha.

In a recent discussion in the User's forum of the AlphaTclMailingLists? a proposal was made and subsequently adopted to remove all "Think" support from AlphaTcl. Files that were previously saved as "Think" will in the future be silently transferred to the "MPW" state.

Since "None/MPW" isn't exactly intuitive terminology for the "saved-state", and since there will only be two options available in the future, it has been further suggested that the File Format pop-up menu simply present a single toggleable menu item indicating the current status. The proper name for this item, however, is in question, and that's where this page comes into play.

The following options have been suggested in various posts. Please indicate your support for one or more of them by editing this page (click on the "Edit" hyperlink at the bottom) and add your name beneath the option(s) that you support. You can vote for as many as you would find acceptable, please indicate your true favorite by placing a "*" behind the name in the appropriate category. You can also add additional suggestions if you have any.

Vote early, vote often, but of course you should never remove someone else's name! All votes will be tabluated on Friday 13 February 2004 and announced in the User's listserv. Of course, these are only suggestions for the AlphaCabal which retains all veto priveleges ...


Remember Window State

  • David Craig (To my mind "state" is more suggestive of what's being preserved than "info")
  • Chajim
  • das *
  • Aaron Montgomery *
  • cbu *
  • t petersen *
  • Rodney Topor * (off by default)

Remember Win State

Keep Window State

Keep Win State

Remember Window Info

Remember Win Info

  • Craig

Keep Window Info

  • Bernard

Keep Win Info

  • Bernard *

Text Only

Save Text Only

Remember Resource Fork

  • (This implies unchecking it would cause Alpha to forget - i.e. delete - the resource fork, no? Is that the intended implication? -- David Craig)

None/MPW (no change beyond removing "Think")

  • das (FWIW, this is what BBedit uses)
  • Fr√©d√©ric (remember that MPW stands for "Memorize Parameters of Window" :-)
  • Aaron Montgomery
  • cbu

Text only/Window state

I think "Text only" is the right think for saving the contents of the window in the data fork of the file. Since this phrase does not contain a verb, the alternative should not contain a verb either. "Save" is implicit here, that is why I prefer "Window state" to "Save/Keep window state".

  • Fr√©d√©ric
  • t petersen

Keep Resource Fork

  • juan *

Keep Resource Fork for the current None; and Create Resource Fork for the current MPW, because the None state just uses the MPSR only if MPSR already exists and does nothing if MPSR does not already exist, and, the MPW state simply creates a new MPSR resource if it does not already exist.

  • Mark Nagata *


(Bernard) If I may add a few comments, I think that a name like starting with "Save" is misleading because it suggests, when seen in a menu, that it is a command to save something. Keep in mind that we'd like something to use both in the File Format popup and in the SaveAs dialog.

Concerning this dialog (which is created by the core), I think I'll leave two radio buttons, one labelled "Text Only", the other one according to the results of this vote, rather than a single checkbox to make it clearer what the alternative is.

Last point involving a question of backward compatibility. Should we keep the same syntax for the state value returned by winGetInfo (that would be mpw or none) or also replace mpw.

(Aaron) I think I suggested "Save as Plain Text" at some point; but Bernard is right, it sounds like a command.

(Aaron) "Resource Fork" may at some point become misleading if we ever start placing this information somewhere else. We could certainly change it later, but I suspect the user doesn't care *where* it is saved, only that it was saved (or remembered) so I would suggest we choose a name based on what we want done, not how we did it.

(Aaron) Someone also pointed out that if we make MPW the default, then Alpha would go around creating resource forks in files that we open which did not start with resource forks. I agree that this is bad, but I think that if a file is opened which does not have a resource fork, then we should be able to have it set to NONE. The default state would only appear during a "Save As..." or when saving a new file. I'm updating from CVS right now so I can't check if AlphaX behaves correctly currently. If it doesn't I'll see if I can fix it.


Results:

The results are in -- here's a list of the top candidates, preceded by the number of votes received.

 
    (7) Remember Window State
    (4) None/MPW (no change beyond removing "Think")
    (3) Save Text Only
    (3) Remember Window Info
    (2) Text only/Window state
    (1) Remember Win Info
    (1) Keep Window Info
    (1) Keep Win Info
    (1) Keep Resource Fork/Create Resource Fork
    (1) Keep Resource Fork

Each participant was allowed to vote for as many options as were deemed acceptable, and to designate a first choice. If we give these first choices double-weight, the results are

 
    (14) Remember Window State
    (5)  Save Text Only
    (4)  None/MPW (no change beyond removing "Think")
    (3)  Text only/Window state
    (3)  Remember Window Info
    (2)  Keep Win Info
    (2)  Keep Resource Fork/Create Resource Fork
    (2)  Keep Resource Fork
    (1)  Remember Win Info
    (1)  Keep Window Info

Thanks for participating, we'll now let the Alpha Cabal make the final determination on what these menu items will be in the next release.

Page last modified on October 10, 2007, at 12:20 AM
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